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Wes H's avatar

Is the problem that "we [pastors/ministry people?] are thinking about people as if they are machines", or that those people are acting as if they're the ones responsible for changing and shaping people, not God?

I'm not saying you should necessarily believe 'magical thinking' about God just 'downloading' formation onto people or something like that, but it seems like even avoiding the 'program' mindset still places the clergy in a place of responsibility in a formational sense and in a way that sort of creates a weird hierarchical or paternalistic relationship where they can end up being the ultimate authority.

I think being pastoral is important, and part of that is not necessarily expecting or looking for any particular outcome of formation, but merely listening and getting to know people and their hurts and spending time.

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Rodney Allen's avatar

I guess church is like family… we don’t choose the family we’re born into but we care for them even though they can be annoying. The baseball analogy fits… Baseball is frustrating and beautiful. But it’s so dualistic. (Your team versus the evil Yankees.)

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