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Bryan Wandel's avatar

Hi Kirsten.

I'm having a hard time following the argument here. First, you engage the argument for female deacons from those who disapprove of female presbyters. Your disapproval of a particular usage of 1 Tim 3 has limited bearing on that argument. I think you'll need to broaden the scope of ecclesiology and talk about what authority is in the church. A Baptist and an Anglican mean different things by the same words here. What do you mean by deacon, authority, presbyter or overseer, etc?

You then proceed to say there's an inconsistency from a person against WO to receive *any* teaching from a woman - including the teaching of a mother to a child! (You cite 2 Tim 1 :5) No one has ever held this position.

Also, the history of the church bears out the struggle to define what some kind of mitigated or lesser authority might look like - for both men and women. Why is that disingenuous or motivated? It's manifestly going on in some texts (as when Timothy appoints leaders, or Paul counsels leaders as a father to them, or when older men and women who don't seem to be in official leadership are counseled to provide leadership to younger men and women). Why is it unreasonable to read some of the strong statements about male authority in home and church, *alongside* an affirmation of various ways women do exercise some form of leadership, teaching, etc., in the form of primary male-only authority, with something going on underneath that which may be more or less gender-differentiated?

Sometimes "scaffolding" is motivated or extra-biblical, but sometimes it's just an attempt to read various passages together. This can be more or less successful, but it's not unwarranted as such.

That's still on the authority side. You say "Why on earth would you want to read a woman who taught without authority?" Isn't it obvious? Not all things are spoken authoritatively - in any context. "Either women can teach, or they can’t. It does seem that simple." Only if you reduce "teaching" to a univocal meaning. No one's hermeneutics is required to do that. The "silence" of 1 Tim 2 is pretty clearly the opposite of taking up authority - not the opposite of ever speaking in a way that someone might learn, in any context.

What do you think?

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Paul S's avatar

Kirsten, a conservative Presbyterian in the PCA or the OPC would basically endorse view #1, with the only exception being to women writers. (As others have pointed out, reading a female author can be no different from a mixed-group discussion that includes women, it's not in itself authoritative the way hearing a sermon would be.)

I think in large part you're basically confirming the conservative PCA reading, in which female deacons, or female speakers in the pulpit on Sunday, are an inconsistency.

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